I like the mix of determination and introspection here. And this
Even River deals better in the black than he does
is interesting here to me, because I've always thought of River as the primary Tam victim. But your point is good - she is able to deal better in some ways (I wonder if once I've seen the film if this point will be reinforced?), and Simon is in many ways the victim. I hadn't thought of it that way before, and I like it.
i don't think it's a film-influenced view of the characters... I know i was thinking these thoughts before I saw serenity :)
i don't know, the more i think about it, the more i find (at the risk of sounding incredibly emo, but then again - he is kinda emo) simon's situation just so utterly tragic. We're bludgeoned over the head with it, but he *did* give up everything for River - and it probably isn't like he was the 'outsider' in his old life (other than being SMRT, and the not-normalness of that, to an extent... but i doubt that would have been detrimental in the best hospital on one of the best central planets); in other words, yeah. Simon had a good life. he knew who and where he was, and was probably enjoying himself to a degree.
but then there's river, who's obviously the most important person in his life, if he's willing to sacrifice everything (rest of the family included) in order to 'save' her. it's suggested (through the show, the viral marketing, all the extra bits of canon given to us here and there) that simon & river had an incredibly intimate relationship - siblings/best friends/confidantes/intellectual peers/whatever.
so here's simon, with a really good life. giving up everything for the most important thing in his life. and finding that the river he used to know is pretty much gone, and it doesn't look like there's much he can really do about it. he's the ultimate fish-out-of-water... he wasn't the outsider just waiting for his chance to break free, he really *doesn't* belong on serenity, in space, with this entirely different culture - he can't fit in there. and the only person left who he *could* fit in with (river), he finds, is completely unavailable to him. he saves river, after struggling so hard to do so, to find that that river doesn't really exist any more.
so yeah, i wouldn't necessarily classify him as the 'victim', but i feel like he has less resources to deal with the whole being-in-the-black situation than river does. sure the show is more about being *human* and humanity and functioning on and for the most basic human emotions and necessities - it isn't a show about class differences - but yeah, anything (class-related, background-related) that would complicate this for river has been stripped away... all that's left is her basic human need. simon's still completely mired in this other world, and it's not really in his nature to revile and want to get rid of it. so he's stuck, and alone.
the characters... I know i was thinking these thoughts before I saw serenity :)
Cool. Still can't wait to see the movie.
Yes, Simon is pretty emo, really. Oh, the pathos. And occasional sense of annoyance...anyway. I really don't think I can add much to your thoughts here, because I tend to agree with them. It's just that prior to reading this ficlet, I hadn't thought about it too much. To be honest, Simon and River were never really my favourite (although Simon grew on me), so I didn't get too much analysis of their character.
I tended to see River as the victim mostly because she was so screwed. I guess I saw her as the one without many resources because it would be so easy to space her or leave her somewhere (even if she is smart, she could be overpowered); and because she was the primary victim of the Alliance. But I do like the idea that she does have resources because she is so screwed - she survived for so long, she has freaky talents, and she doesn't seem to really 'touch' the world. Although I think that a lot of those resources are only available to her because Simon is there - if she lost him, I don't think she would be able to cope (even in her crazy coping way) anymore.
And I suppose I bought into (to paraphrase Book) the idea that Simon was very brave (Mal: "He's my hero"/sarcasm). So I didn't think too much about his general lack of resources. Except of course, at the hands of Mal and Jayne who like to punch him.
But this is what I like about reading fic - I get pretty caught up in my own reading of things, and it's really nice to have a little 'bingbingbing' go off when you read someone else's interpretations.
Although I think that a lot of those resources are only available to her because Simon is there - if she lost him, I don't think she would be able to cope (even in her crazy coping way) anymore.
yes, that is a good point. as vague and disconnected as she seems, i think she would be completely fucked without him.
And you sure write a whole lot of awesome simon characterisation for him to not be one of your favourites!
i love fanfiction. there are so many different and yet still *right* interpretations of characters. *CLUTCHES FANFIC TO BOSOM*
This has to be one of the best Kaylee-centric pieces I've ever read. She's so insightful... I love her stream of thoughts, and how things just boil down to "simple" for her, even when they're terribly complicated. Beautiful work!
thankyou so much! this is my first kaylee piece, and yeah, she always struck me as a relatively complicated character merely because of the simplicity :)
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is interesting here to me, because I've always thought of River as the primary Tam victim. But your point is good - she is able to deal better in some ways (I wonder if once I've seen the film if this point will be reinforced?), and Simon is in many ways the victim. I hadn't thought of it that way before, and I like it.
Hahhaha, Bester being mediocre!
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i don't know, the more i think about it, the more i find (at the risk of sounding incredibly emo, but then again - he is kinda emo) simon's situation just so utterly tragic. We're bludgeoned over the head with it, but he *did* give up everything for River - and it probably isn't like he was the 'outsider' in his old life (other than being SMRT, and the not-normalness of that, to an extent... but i doubt that would have been detrimental in the best hospital on one of the best central planets); in other words, yeah. Simon had a good life. he knew who and where he was, and was probably enjoying himself to a degree.
but then there's river, who's obviously the most important person in his life, if he's willing to sacrifice everything (rest of the family included) in order to 'save' her. it's suggested (through the show, the viral marketing, all the extra bits of canon given to us here and there) that simon & river had an incredibly intimate relationship - siblings/best friends/confidantes/intellectual peers/whatever.
so here's simon, with a really good life. giving up everything for the most important thing in his life. and finding that the river he used to know is pretty much gone, and it doesn't look like there's much he can really do about it. he's the ultimate fish-out-of-water... he wasn't the outsider just waiting for his chance to break free, he really *doesn't* belong on serenity, in space, with this entirely different culture - he can't fit in there. and the only person left who he *could* fit in with (river), he finds, is completely unavailable to him. he saves river, after struggling so hard to do so, to find that that river doesn't really exist any more.
so yeah, i wouldn't necessarily classify him as the 'victim', but i feel like he has less resources to deal with the whole being-in-the-black situation than river does. sure the show is more about being *human* and humanity and functioning on and for the most basic human emotions and necessities - it isn't a show about class differences - but yeah, anything (class-related, background-related) that would complicate this for river has been stripped away... all that's left is her basic human need. simon's still completely mired in this other world, and it's not really in his nature to revile and want to get rid of it. so he's stuck, and alone.
poor woobie simon!
anyhoo, will stop rambling now. HI.
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Cool. Still can't wait to see the movie.
Yes, Simon is pretty emo, really. Oh, the pathos. And occasional sense of annoyance...anyway. I really don't think I can add much to your thoughts here, because I tend to agree with them. It's just that prior to reading this ficlet, I hadn't thought about it too much. To be honest, Simon and River were never really my favourite (although Simon grew on me), so I didn't get too much analysis of their character.
I tended to see River as the victim mostly because she was so screwed. I guess I saw her as the one without many resources because it would be so easy to space her or leave her somewhere (even if she is smart, she could be overpowered); and because she was the primary victim of the Alliance. But I do like the idea that she does have resources because she is so screwed - she survived for so long, she has freaky talents, and she doesn't seem to really 'touch' the world. Although I think that a lot of those resources are only available to her because Simon is there - if she lost him, I don't think she would be able to cope (even in her crazy coping way) anymore.
And I suppose I bought into (to paraphrase Book) the idea that Simon was very brave (Mal: "He's my hero"/sarcasm). So I didn't think too much about his general lack of resources. Except of course, at the hands of Mal and Jayne who like to punch him.
But this is what I like about reading fic - I get pretty caught up in my own reading of things, and it's really nice to have a little 'bingbingbing' go off when you read someone else's interpretations.
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yes, that is a good point. as vague and disconnected as she seems, i think she would be completely fucked without him.
And you sure write a whole lot of awesome simon characterisation for him to not be one of your favourites!
i love fanfiction. there are so many different and yet still *right* interpretations of characters. *CLUTCHES FANFIC TO BOSOM*
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It's all about trying to figure out how/why he might get into bed with Jayne (mostly). I have um, ulterior characterisation motives or something.
Hmm, yes. It is just so fun! Yay, fanfic!
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i'm very glad this worked for you.
*squish*
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thanks for the feedback, it means a lot :)