hope | OOF!

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OOF!

We are finally home from the con. We should have been back about 3 hours ago, but our train stopped just outside of Coventry and didn't start again until 2 hours later. Joy!

Anyhoo, have had a quick skim of the flist and seen very little about Jensen's rather interesting panel session this afternoon.

Indeed, there were interesting questions.

It was very easy to tell when a question made him uncomfortable, because there was facepalming. The more uncomfortable, the more facepalming. All the questions about Dean & the show made him very enthusiastic and excited. Questions like, "what do you think are your best and worst physical features?"* and "if you had to write a personals ad for yourself, what would it say?" resulted in moderate facepalming.

The question, "You said in the panel yesterday that you were very protective of Dean. What do you think of fanfiction?" made him practically crawl behind the chair he was facepalming so much.

I don't even remember his very brief answer about 'fanfiction' because he launched right into "some really imaginative/crazy [can't remember exact wording, but def wasn't positive] fans write something called Wincest..." (cue more facepalming). He did handle it quite well, though he was clearly very uncomfortable.

Of course, about fifteen minutes later, someone else asked a question that was something like: "is there gay subtext between Sam and Dean?" (I didn't quite hear it, just got the gist), which, personally, I think is quite a valid question!! But it was met with another anxious moan from the audience, and Jensen adamantly declaring (and facepalming) that a) THEY'RE BROTHERS! and b) Kripke knows about all the Wincest/gay stuff, and puts in these little 'jokes' to poke fun and show how ridiculous and outrageous that idea is.

(...clearly, that's working out for them.)

Anyway, Jensen said that he and Jared only found out about Wincest BECAUSE KIM MANNERS GAVE SOME TO THEM. I could not love Kim Manners any more, at this point. (I would kill to know what/who's story he gave them!)

I'm not sure how I feel about those questions. Well, I feel fine about the gay subtext question - I think it would be more of a problem if people thought that it was a problem to ask about gay subtext at a convention - given that it's common practice that people were asking about het love interests and dynamics on the show. But it did come at a time in that panel where Wincest was already at the front of everyone's minds.

The fanfiction question is a sticky one. Some fans are adamant that it was incredibly inappropriate, that it's something that's seen but not heard/admitted to (on either side). But the old practices are changing anyway, I think, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Yes, a lot of the practices of passing on etiquette is no longer present, but I think some of the 'rules' have - or should - become obsolete anyway.

The person that asked that question asked it of pretty much every guest at every panel; Alona Tal, upon being asked if she looked at websites/forums/etc, said she reads "everything. EVERYTHING." Nicki Aycox and Brooke Nevin seemed bemused, but relatively positive about support and imagination. Nicki had received fanfic about Meg in the mail from a fan, and had been blown away and utterly impressed by how awesome it was; Brooke suggested fans write episodes of the show themselves. Someone asked Alison Mack a question about the Clark/Lex and she very frankly said that the rescusitation scene in the pilot drew in a huge fanbase because of its homoeroticism - and she didn't seem to think anything was wrong with that. or with saying that.

I don't know. I think it's just as easy to find fanfiction as any fan website these days, and with TV producers becoming more connected with audiences and fans (and definitely seeing the benefit of that!), they're definitely less likely to just turn a blind eye to what the fans are doing and saying. And by 'they' I mean not only the actors (like Alona, who reads all the forums etc), but the producers and creators.

I think for me, my opinion on all of this is formed by my firm belief that fanfiction - including slash - isn't something that should be considered shameful.

I don't think that guests at conventions should be made uncomfortable by inappropriate questions. I think that if they are clearly uncomfortable, then questioners/audience/fans should back off.

But ideally, i'd like a world where asking about fanfiction doesn't make the guest - or the rest of the audience - uncomfortable. I really liked the way Nicki and Brooke dealt with the question; I didn't like the way I'm sure a lot of the audience held their breath and/or muttered to the person sitting next to them and/or shook their heads in disapproval.

I think the fact that the audience let out a big lascivious moan en masse when the girl at Jensen's panel asked about fanfiction only served to support his discomfort.

Basically, I think I want everyone to stop thinking that fanfiction, slash or no, is something to be ashamed of.

Especially with television texts, the boundaries of the characters are so open anyway, I don't think it is something that should invoke a concept of violation of those characters and who portrays them ('Dean' is written by a range of script writers, directed by a number of directors, has input from Jensen, is re-written by comics authors and novelists and whoever wrote the material on the official website...).

Anyway, it's late, and my brain surge upon walking home in the rain has subsided again.

All in all, a good weekend :)

* Answer to best & worse physical features question: Jensen facepalming, looking uncomfortable, then surreptitiously glancing down at his crotch. Then, when the crowd cheered, saying "well, yaknow, and worse would be... bow legs. An awful set of Texas bow legs."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Eeeee, thank you so much for sharing this stuff!

My pleasure :)

I think my discomfort is not in mentioning fanfiction per se. It's more the general thing of asking questions to people that make them uncomfortable.

However I was thrilled to hear that Jensen said "“Dean’s best moments are when he’s with his dad.” \o/

However I was thrilled to hear that Jensen said "“Dean’s best moments are when he’s with his dad.” \o/

I was thrilled also :D

As I said above, I agree - I don't think people should ask questions that make guests uncomfortable, no matter what they are. I do want fanfiction and that kind of fandom activity to be something that causes less discomfort - but I don't think that occurs by shoving something that makes the guest uncomfortable in their face.

(not that wincest was shoved in jensen's face, unless by kim manners! he brought the slash up on his own.)

Aw...but we love his Texas bow legs. :)

My thing with the fanfic questions is that I just think there should be some things are JUST within fandom. It's got nothing to do with slash or wincest or whatever, but really the show is their's and fanfic is the fans' and I think it's good to have that seperation because I think it allows for more imagination and freedom, not less.

Yup. I was gonna comment and say just that. Our sandbox!= their sandbox.

No shame or anything; just that it really has nothing to do with them as far as I'm concerned. My fantasies are about the characters, not the actors, and frankly I really don't care what they think about it. It's not written for them... [Now, RPS is an entirely different issue...wait, no, it actually isn't. The RPS I read is not about the *people* either but about characters drawn from their lives, so to speak...again, not for them but us.]

But thank you for a great report!!!! Sounds like you're having a marvelous time.

As i said to the commenter above, I think conventions are where the sandboxes tend to converge - people from both sides are there and mingling, questions are asked and discussions started about their sandbox... if the topic of our sandbox comes up, then i don't think it's something we need to be outraged and embarrassed about.

I don't see how not having a culture of shamefulness around fanfiction removes it from its fandom context.

sure, they have their things and we have our things - i'm not saying that fandom should become mainstream, but that it shouldn't have to be hidden or hushed or felt guilty/ashamed about.

And I think the convention setting is where the 'their stuff' and 'our stuff' collide, anyway - people were asking questions about 'their stuff' at the panel - like continuity, technical aspects of shooting, etc etc etc... things that don't necessarily concern us unless we want to dig around for them. I think it works the same the other way.

But working the other way would mean them asking questions about us, wouldn't it? Not us asking questions about us.

Am I making any sense? The entire con thing is incredibly imbalanced (one of the reasons why convergence isn't a good model for me). If actor X and fan Y were to meet up and they chat and are curious about one another's sandboxes it'd be one thing (and that has happened, after all). But asking actors what they think about US...not the same thing afai'm concerned.

It is making sense, though obviously I have a bit of a different stance on it *g*

I have been to conventions where guests *have* mingled and actually asked the fans about fanfiction and slash. Even at this convention, when someone asked Alison Mack about Clark/Lex, she turned the question on the fan and asked them what they thought about it.

I guess I also feel, to a degree (and I know we differ, here) that these forums and spaces on the internet are actually open and public - even if they're not publicised. Whereas the film industry/spaces of production, largely are not. Conventions give fans the opportunity to try and find out what they want to know about what goes on inside the production sandbox.

It's pretty obvious that people from the production sandbox have come over into this sandbox, dug around in it, formed opinions on it. And it is as open to them as anyone else - I mean, I certainly didn't get an invitation, interview and introduction to fandom; I just had to look around myself and figure out what's what. Certainly especially with anonymity, that would be just as easy from someone in the production sandbox. In fact, I know of several cases where that is what is going on (especially in bandslash RPS!!).

It is an interesting point/question though, that one about asking the production people as to what they think about our sandbox. Still, if the question was what they thought about the SPN official vidding competition, or the comics, or fan websites or cosplay or something - I'm sure there wouldn't have been the same anxiety/discomfort response. Why is there THAT imbalance?

But see, asking them about what they think about slash is not "find[ing] out what they want to know about what goes on inside the production sandbox." As I sais, if the questions come to *us*, I'll be the first to answer them. Bringing it to their doorstep is very different!

Also, I'd argue that the official vidding competition or the comics would clearly *not* be our sandbox now would it?

I have no problem with people doing their research and coming into our sandbox; as you point out, it is open and public (except when it isn't, and I'm a big supporter of that as well, i.e., flocked RPS communities, vidding sites with password protection, etc). But again, they go and look, they're responsible what they find. That's a quite different scenario than asking them about us...b/c I can't see any *reason* to do so other than to get somehow valorized by the actor...and why would we need that???

In this particular case (with JA at Asylum), I think the fact that Kim Manners discovered & shared slash with JA is testimony to the fact that they (production) explored our sandbox on their own. The question at Asylum was about 'fanfiction', not slash per se (Jensen brought up Wincest himself).

When it comes to the reason for wanting to know what production thinks of our sandbox... well, I know *I'm* fascinated and would love to know their opinions of it! if they have opinions already, that is. I'm not keen to bring it to their doorstep if they're not interested. But being non-confrontational with it does not equal hiding it or pretending it doesn't exist, in my opinion.

Also, I'd argue that the official vidding competition or the comics would clearly *not* be our sandbox now would it?

With that comment about the 'official' text expansion, I was trying to get more at what I perceive to be an imbalance of how this material created outside of the original boundaries of the text are perceived.

As in - *why* is the attitude around fanfiction, slash or no, one of shamefulness or worthlessness? is it because it doesn't make money? What are the moral/ethical reasons that make it okay to be embarassed about, or to scoff? Is it because other artists/authors are 'violating' the original text by borrowing parts and transforming or expanding on them? Because for me, that's exactly what the comics, the novel spin-offs and the vidding comp are doing. So those reasons don't fly with me.

I guess I feel like (after writing the above para) that there is, to a degree, a discrimination against fans where what they produce is considered worthless or shameful, when there's no real reason for that. I would like that to change, so that even the idea of bringing discussion of fan-produced material 'to the doorstep' of production folk is as acceptable as, say, dressing in costume at a convention or wearing a home-made fan teeshirt.

No, I have no shame about it at all! Heck, I went from writing on Woolf to writing on Shallot, y'know :D

But to me this is not about being public about fanfic. It's about a socially prescribed interaction where someone is kinda forced to answer questions and the socially polite thing for me would be to not bring our fantasies to his front door.

If he brings it up? Different issue.

But then I think I just don't get the celebrity thing in general. I could care less what they think about pretty much anything except maybe acting choices. I care much more qabout *your* interpretation of an episode than about theirs. I love the show, but y'all are my fandom y'know :)

I agree with

missyjack. I don't think fanfic is anything to be ashamed of, and you're right in saying that Dean is written by a whole group of people. I think- I just don't like people asking things that make other people uncomfortable. ://

But I really like what you're saying here, and I'm kind of hopeful that sometime you'll write up a big long cultural/media theory post. ;))

and damnit, but that facepalming action is kind of cute, heh.

the facepalming was kind of cute, but i did feel kind of sorry for him because he was clearly having difficulty dealing with a lot of that kind of attention!

I am very anti-uncomfortable questions. I just hope that one day talking about creative fandom will NOT be an uncomfortable topic!

like, I'm sure if someone asked a question about the vidding competition that they were running to promote supernatural, he would have been all positive about it.

*waves* It was so lovely to meet you, however briefly - I just wish we could have met up sooner in the weekend and talked when my brain was still functioning!

But anyway, I'm barging in here just to say how much I agree with you re the uncomfortable questions thing. I felt very uncomfortable at some of the questions that Jensen was asked (not just the fandom-related ones, but the more personal ones). I had thought, until reading your post, it was because I deemed them inappropriate. I now realise it was more because he was uncomfortable with them.

I originally wanted the floor to open up and swallow me when somebody asked Allison Mack about Clark/Lex, and later about the homoerotic subtext of Jason rescuing Clark - but she was so cool with both questions that I relaxed again and really enjoyed her answers, and the fact that she so obviously knows all about slash and, I infer therefore, fandom.

The boundaries between 'them' and 'us' are, I think, becoming less clear than when zines were all hard copy and really an underground thing among fans. Certainly there are vids and stories I've come across over the years which I'd really love the original creators of the characters / shows to see, to understand the way we feel about their creations, and in an ideal world, to talk with them about our experience of their creations.

PS. what kind of things would be in a big long cultural/media theory post that i would make? *g*

Though I'm not involved in this fandom, I've read some of the things about the con with interest. Someone else on my flist talked about the potentially "inappropriate" questions, and her point came down to what sort of impact these questions might ultimately have on the show. I guess a few years ago the SG1 writers -- perhaps influenced by this sort of fan reaction, though I don't really know the details -- suddenly decided that the show had become "too gay" and for a period of time kept the two main characters (Jack and Daniel) as far apart as possible.

She may have a point; if the writers are trying to poke fun at the whole idea of subtext and it's not working (the con questions possibly supporting that notion), what other measures might they feel compelled to take?

The creators of the show seem very down-to-earth about the whole thing (Kim Manners, major producer & director, is the one who gave J&J the wincest in the first place!), and i think they're smart enough realise that cutting out the fraternal connection would utterly destroy the show. And it's the fraternal connection that the slashers play off *g*

I think that overall SPN's production is coming already from a slightly more grassroots, fannish base than SG1, so I have a bit more hope for the creators!

Thought I'd weigh in on the fanfiction issue, because I'd just read some Q&A posed by

mrscutedean and, I'll admit, the fanfic questions made me facepalm.

I agree with you on the point that, considering the evolution of a relationship between TV shows and the audiences, the question about fanfiction shouldn't be shocking or found embarrassing. However, I do think there's a line, whereupon a person in question being objectified - Jensen in RPS or Jensen as Dean in Wincest, for example - perhaps shouldn't be addressed such a question. From my point of view, Alison Mack was talking about two fictional characters, Clark and Lex, and that's different from asking Jensen, who's admitted to feeling very protective of Dean.

Not to mention the whole 'incest' issue, which is quite separate from the fanfiction and slash debate, by being quite illegal pretty much everywhere in the world.

Having said all that, I do agree that with the progress of time, boards and forums and fanfiction will (and should) become more of a commonplace knowledge among the actors, and acknowledged as valid means of fan communication.

Jensen himself did bring up the wincest, though! the fanfiction question was just that - a question about fanfiction and more dean characterisation than "what do you think about gay porn about you?"

And i disagree with you entirely on the objectification front! even with slash, i think fanfiction expresses a respect for and love of a character, something which Nicki Aycox & Brooke Nevin recognised & praised in their panels.

I also disagree with you on making incest an issue in this - though this is an age-old fandom debate! fanfiction and reality are two very separate things, and by and large fans recognise this. I think often production do not realise that fans recognise this. I think the more open and unashamed fans are about it, the more likely production will get a more accurate understanding of just what fanfiction is and does.

hey you, i'm sure you know i pretty much agree with eveything you've written here, but for the record I PRETTY MUCH AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN HERE. i totally agree that slash/fanfic isn't something people should be made to feel is 'inapproapriate', and also that there is a human consideration in not making other people (poor delicate jensen!) feel really uncomfortable. that same compassion should be shown to the people who ask such questions - giantloud eyerolling isn't particularly nice, either. i look forward to you maybe fleshing this out a bit more when you have time!

*uses "dean/sam (eyefuck)" icon*

um, INAPPROAPRIATE? WHUT?!

What kind of fleshing are you thinking of?

I think that the 'human consideration' is what gets put most at risk at these big guest conventions. I mean, the girl who literally attacked jensen had no human consideration - just wanted to be able to say that she'd touched/hugged/kissed him, or whatever. I tend to feel to a degree that the people who ask questions like "what do you think are your best and worst physical features?" are also lacking that consideration. It's total objectification in those cases, I think, when they're clearly uncomfortable but the fan is just after the end product without any compassion or consideration for the person they're speaking to.

UR INAPROAPRIATE!

yah, the flinging of oneself upon another is not a good thing at all. really. i mean, it's not APPROAPRIATE in any situation, really. that's a different thing from someone asking a question about fanfic (that was apparantly not specific to slash or wincest?) . . . and you know, maybe she didn't know how icky jensen was about those things. i certainly don't know.

i'd be interested in more discussion on the idea of cons being places where production and reception get mixed up and around together. i'm sure it's been done before, but i think with specific examples of slash fiction and the possible effects it has on production. hm. not sure at the moment. . .

now, if only jared had been there, huh?

Thanks so much for these reports!

To weigh in on the whole OMG-they-mentioned-fanfic! thing, I've never felt like fanfic was, as you say, some horrible little secret we should be properly ashamed of, no matter *what* is being written about -- it's not like fanfic writers invented incest, or something. What makes me a little squirmy about the whole thing is what you described -- the lascivious fangirl moan (great way of putting it) of anticipation. And it's not even that, either, except that it was so obviously making Jensen uncomfortable; I mean, some actors (i.e., Jared, probably) would take it all in stride, but this is a guy who even in regular, non-fangirl interviews looks like he's being tortured by fire ants.

But clearly, it hasn't, like damaged him for life, since Kim Manners, who actually KNOWS him, figured he could handle reading it. Which is hilarious and awesome.

My pleasure. I please to aim :)

Most of the squirminess for me, yeah, was due to the fan reaction to the fact that someone asked about fanfiction (and not even Wincest! jensen brought that up himself).

And it had been asked in previous panels, with quite positive responses (where the audience managed to keep their moans to a minimum).

I did find myself wishing, as I was on my way home from the con, that Jared had been there. Jensen was clearly very shy and unsure of how to deal with a lot of the behaviour and questions of the fans. I'm sure that if Jared had been there too that discomfort would have been tempered with more humour, etc.

Kripke knows about all the Wincest/gay stuff, and puts in these little 'jokes' to poke fun and show how ridiculous and outrageous that idea is.

See, this kind of thing, if true, really kind of irritates me. Dude. Your show has subtext. You, the writers, directors, and actors created it -- doesn't matter if it wasn't intentional, it's there, already. I can understand the desire to try to reinforce your own idea of what your story is about; but to micromanage your project in this way, seems like you're just shooting yourself in the foot, and wasting time that could be better spent focusing on, you know, your story. You just can't run around everywhere huffing and brandishing your red marker and shrieking, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEAN! Why must my art be so misunderstood!!!

Well, for one, because you've got two protagonists who act more like lovers than brothers, and it's not just one or two people who've interpreted it that way, but a significant portion of your audience. And if he wants to turn his project into a joke, that's his call. Or maybe he could just deal with it, and tell his story the way he wants it to be told, and let his audience do what they will with the result.

Even if it's meant less as a self-conscious and angry joke, and more of a shout-out -- still, you have to ask yourself, is this kind of thing ultimately hurting my story?

Anyway. It's a thought. I hope it makes sense despite my problems with expression. :)

Yep, it all makes sense, and I agree with you.

if he wants to turn his project into a joke, that's his call. Or maybe he could just deal with it, and tell his story the way he wants it to be told, and let his audience do what they will with the result.

Roadhouse stuff aside, I think Kripke seems to be leaning more towards this side of things - or at least production team folks like Kim Manners seem to be.

I was thinking about the gay subtext question, and JA's response to it, in relation to another question that was asked at the panel - someone asked whether Dean took more after John or Mary. JA's response to that was that Mary didn't really have any characterisation - She appeared very briefly, twice, and all she did was give "motherly looks" (that's pretty much his exact response, there).

That makes me think that folks on the production side of texts have a completely different concept of the text itself than the fans do, and a completely different relationship with it.

A couple of years ago I was friends with a girl who acted in Australian TV, and it was around the same time

monkeycrackmary and I were hardcore into fandom and media academia. We used to argue with this actor about analysis and interpretation of texts; with her perspective she had a completely different concept of what the text did, should and could mean.

JA's answer that Mary wasn't given a character kind of infers to me that his concept of the text doesn't extend out beyond exactly what's printed onto film. Similar with his "they're BROTHERS!" response to the gay subtext question - and his description of EK's response.

But it's almost like we're speaking a completely different language. The questioner wasn't asking JA, as an expert on Dean's character, whether Dean and Sam were fucking. She was asking about subtext and interpretation, which doesn't seem to be taken a lot into account by production!

Anyway, I hope THAT makes sense, hee.

The questioner wasn't asking JA, as an expert on Dean's character, whether Dean and Sam were fucking. She was asking about subtext and interpretation, which doesn't seem to be taken a lot into account by production!

This is exactly why I think it was an inappropriate question to ask Jensen. Not because it's a shameful thing that should be kept secret -- but because Jensen isn't going to be able to answer it. ... I mean, come on. Did the person with the question really think he'd have something intellectual and witty to say about the interpretation of texts, and that he'd go into this long lecture about whatever whatever? He's an ACTOR. And while it might be kinda fun to grab a beer with him, if I want to discuss Supernatural, and the way it utilizes archetypical themes and blah blah smartypants, I'm going to turn to another fan.

Besides, Jensen is a dude. I'm not saying guys are dumb... just literal. Most of them wouldn't recognize subtext if it fucked them up the ass.

Yea, true that. I've been to a few conventions where fans have asked quite penetrating questions of characters/themes/whatever, and the guest has said something along the lines of "uh, you'll have to ask the writers that".

Still, I don't think that's necessarily everyone would understand... I don't know, it seems to me that it doesn't necessarily occur to people (actors, fans, otherwise) that there are multiple ways of consuming and conceiving of the text, let alone analysing or interpreting it.

I think that's where a lot of the difficulty/discomfort/awkwardness comes in. an inability to connect on those understandings. which kind of bites itself in the ass, i guess! (pumping, and pumping...)

it doesn't necessarily occur to people (actors, fans, otherwise) that there are multiple ways of consuming and conceiving of the text, let alone analysing or interpreting it.

mhm. i spend so much time reading people who interact with television, literature, etc, in the same way that i do; i always get that stupid little momentary shock whenever i deal with other people who just have no clue where i'm coming from. They want to know, Why do you do that? And all I can think is, Why aren't you doing that?

(pumping, and pumping...)

Oh you gotta know he knew exactly what he was doing when he said that. Funny boy.

From my own experience with straight guys -- I can tell you that reaction: BUT THEY'RE BROTHERS/FRIENDS/OCCUPATIONAL PARTNERS! is really common. It's partly the way they view sex, and homosexuality in particular, that makes them so protective of their nonsexual masculine friendships. They feel like they have to be on guard against the prurient and shallow degradation of something they view as holy and special. No lie! Like they think that gay sex = Babylon, and campy limpwristed mincing, and the complete objectification of male love. I think that's partly the fault of popular Gay Culture, as unpopular as that may be to say; and partly their projection of the way they view women and straight sex, unfortunately.

I totally agree that the best way to reinforce what your story is about is by just writing what you think it's about - NOT by mentioning the stuff that you think it isn't about, and mentioning it in the text. I've seen that rather ruin stories, where a character suddenly goes OOC for a bit just so that TPTB can point out hey, that's OOC. And my response is, you'd have been better off just having them continue to act like themselves, to get that point across.

Heh. Yep, exactly. That was much more succinct than my ramble. :)

Just wanna say how I love your post.

Thank you!

:D

Thanks!

thank you! i completely agree.

i've had quite a lot posts on my flist about this thing already, and I'm still just catching up. Honestly, I get really mad when people post that they are embarassed of fandom or whatever.

Firstly, the fanfic question wasn't even geared at wincest. He could've perfectly answered it by saying how he feels when fans write Dean, make him OOC or invent episodic fanfics or whatev. He went to the Wincest thing because it's an obvious association in everybody's mind, but he didn't have to. I sadly had to leave after that, so I didn't get the subtext question. Which I think was basically a mute question, because they're brothers. He's not gonna say there's subtext, and he's not gonna say Jared/Jensen chemistry is responsible for that or whatev. So why ask it?

Secondly, it makes me angry that people blame FANDOM for the Jensen Jumping and Wincest question (which wasn't even a wincest question). One crazy fan jumps him and suddenly fandom is something to be ashamed of? I'm part of fandom and claim to have a halfway sane mind so that I don't jump him, thanks. As did all the other 699 people there. /rant

yep, i think it is worthwhile everyone keeping in mind that JENSEN brought up the wincest. THAT aspect of it wasn't forced on him by fans!

And yes, it is worrying when people assume 1 person is representative of the whole.

I reckon that overall, with 700 very friendly, lovely people there - his experiences of everyone he met would have been largely positive, even if the bad was frigging awful.

exactly. people tend to forget that there's a whole "harmless" aspect of fanfiction as well. what's so bad about telling the actors you like the characters so much, you're making up your own stories about them? (naturally, i'd never ever tell an actor about RPS unless i really wanted to freak them out O.o)

I would like to think he took an overall positive feeling home. I mean he saw that British/European fans are crazy supportive of the show, how much we love him and his work. And I'd think most of us were pretty friendly. I mean his management wanted to pull him fron the con a week before, because they thought it wasn't the best image for him, but he insisted on going. I really hope he'll consider doing a con again. (Though I'd laugh my ass off if we Europeans were the only ones to ever get Ackles on a con.)

Very well written. I too feel that fanfiction is nothing to be ashamed of. It's becoming more visible, and I think this is a great thing. The lines are blurring and soon they'll cease to exist. Neil Gaimen, my favorite mainstream writer, has written fanfiction himself and countless other writers, Martha Wilson, for example. I think it's exciting! It's great for Supernatural, as well. It increases visibility. I know a lot of people who have been converted to Supernatural because of fanfiction. It's great to see a production team of a show really get it and interact with the fans.

Omg...bow legs, how cute. I love the way he shuffles. Like he's waddling. I kinda wish Jared has been there to defuse some of the tension. He would have made a joke out of the whole thing, I'm sure. ^---^

I agree - the lines of media production and consumption are being blurred. I'm not saying I want the production and consumption of fanfiction itself to change or become more visible, i just don't want it to be considered, by default, something That Must Not Be Named!

And I agree again, if Jared were there it would have been a totally different dynamic, definitely :)

Hey! *waves*

I'm just scooting around gathering up Asylum memories (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=purplephoenix03&keyword=Asylum+Con+07&filter=all) to add to my own :)

And I have to agree about the fanfiction q - I think most of the audience were like, OMG SHE DIDN'T JUST ASK THAT *facepalm*

Hi there! Hee, i'm loving that people are using their photoshoot shots as icons now, I can actually properly put LJ names to faces!!

Interestingly put; I'm still not entirely sure what I think, but I think in essence I don't have an issue with fanfic being raised - I really liked how the girls handled it, but seeing Jensen (or any guest for that matter) being made to feel uncomfortable just made me really uncomfortable, and that maybe the moderator guy should have stepped in and moved it on when Jensen was uncomfortable.

He did answer the first question fine, but the groan to the second question re the subtext (which could possibly have been a little better phrased, but it's easy to see why it wasn't) made it a little cringy.

Both questions separatley were fine, but their proximity was uncomfortable. Mmh, yeah, I think that'll be my thoughts then.

proximity had a lot to do with it, yeah.

As we were discussing over dinner that night, i think a lot of the conflict over that panel was caused by the lack of moderation!

In a way, I'm surprised that Jensen & co didn't request a moderation of questions (as is fairly typical for US cons), considering all his other requirements of fan interactions, but then again - it was his first con! perhaps next time we'll see new policies in place...

I'd think that moderation would have helped, definitely, although it's really not usual here at all.

But even at that if whassisface up on the stage had been doing his job properly then he could have dealt with any potential issue quite easily and there'd've been no problem at all (although, I really don't think it was nearly as much of a problem as seems to have been made of it... given the crotch joke later on :) ).

indeed. Shy? yes. delicate flower? definitely not!

exactly :D

Wouldn't have it any other way :D

I think the fact that the audience let out a big lascivious moan en masse when the girl at Jensen's panel asked about fanfiction only served to support his discomfort.

Basically, I think I want everyone to stop thinking that fanfiction, slash or no, is something to be ashamed of.

Hoho, that big moan could NOT have been good for Jensen's peace of mind. But hey, he's a big boy and he probably loves lesbian porn just like every other straight man I know....either way, I agree that guests shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable at cons, but fans have a right to ask about fanfic...we wanna know if they've gotten wise yet!

Do you ever wonder if your own fic has been read by someone connected to the show?

I agree, he is a big boy, and as someone said above - he was introduced to Wincest by someone who already KNEW him and knew he could handle it *g* still, making guests uncomfortable and putting them on the spot isn't the greatest thing ever.

Do you ever wonder if your own fic has been read by someone connected to the show?

who doesn't!

Yeah, I'm glad he could have a laugh about it with Jared (probably) as opposed to Googling himself or Dean while drunk and finding that shit. (What, you don't Google yourself while drunk? Okay, maybe that's just what I do...)

Lol, I have written a lot of RPS incest fiction about these two hot Spanish brothers who play football, and every time I write a new fic, I imagine their cousin or someone will read it. So it's less of a fun, anonymous fantasy for me than a real fear of litigation :D

Lemme just say, though, that there is not a single libel lawsuit in the world that could make me stop ^__^

I've been going to conventions for over three decades; I've had many occasions to witness fans asking embarrassing questions of actors--including the slash questions. I always wonder . . . why? What's the point?

As far as I can figure out, it seems to be entirely about validation. Anti-slash, pro-slash--it doesn't matter. The person asking the question wants to hear that the actor agrees with his or her viewpoint. Presumably so the questioner can then be the Bringer of Truth back to fandom. (Which never works anyway, as the viewpoint that has been "invalidated" isn't going to go away, and the fans who hold that viewpoint will just respond how unimportant the actor's opinion on the issue . . . Fans, gotta love 'em. )

For my part, I don't regard "Wincest" as subtext--it comes under the heading of what I call "spackletext," and I would be seriously surprised if, indeed, as ggreenapple suggests, that "a significant portion" of his audience (his entire viewing audience, not just the portion that writes online fan fiction) interprets the two as lovers.

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What is the point of the exercise?