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OOF!
We are finally home from the con. We should have been back about 3 hours ago, but our train stopped just outside of Coventry and didn't start again until 2 hours later. Joy!
Anyhoo, have had a quick skim of the flist and seen very little about Jensen's rather interesting panel session this afternoon.
Indeed, there were interesting questions.
It was very easy to tell when a question made him uncomfortable, because there was facepalming. The more uncomfortable, the more facepalming. All the questions about Dean & the show made him very enthusiastic and excited. Questions like, "what do you think are your best and worst physical features?"* and "if you had to write a personals ad for yourself, what would it say?" resulted in moderate facepalming.
The question, "You said in the panel yesterday that you were very protective of Dean. What do you think of fanfiction?" made him practically crawl behind the chair he was facepalming so much.
I don't even remember his very brief answer about 'fanfiction' because he launched right into "some really imaginative/crazy [can't remember exact wording, but def wasn't positive] fans write something called Wincest..." (cue more facepalming). He did handle it quite well, though he was clearly very uncomfortable.
Of course, about fifteen minutes later, someone else asked a question that was something like: "is there gay subtext between Sam and Dean?" (I didn't quite hear it, just got the gist), which, personally, I think is quite a valid question!! But it was met with another anxious moan from the audience, and Jensen adamantly declaring (and facepalming) that a) THEY'RE BROTHERS! and b) Kripke knows about all the Wincest/gay stuff, and puts in these little 'jokes' to poke fun and show how ridiculous and outrageous that idea is.
(...clearly, that's working out for them.)
Anyway, Jensen said that he and Jared only found out about Wincest BECAUSE KIM MANNERS GAVE SOME TO THEM. I could not love Kim Manners any more, at this point. (I would kill to know what/who's story he gave them!)
I'm not sure how I feel about those questions. Well, I feel fine about the gay subtext question - I think it would be more of a problem if people thought that it was a problem to ask about gay subtext at a convention - given that it's common practice that people were asking about het love interests and dynamics on the show. But it did come at a time in that panel where Wincest was already at the front of everyone's minds.
The fanfiction question is a sticky one. Some fans are adamant that it was incredibly inappropriate, that it's something that's seen but not heard/admitted to (on either side). But the old practices are changing anyway, I think, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Yes, a lot of the practices of passing on etiquette is no longer present, but I think some of the 'rules' have - or should - become obsolete anyway.
The person that asked that question asked it of pretty much every guest at every panel; Alona Tal, upon being asked if she looked at websites/forums/etc, said she reads "everything. EVERYTHING." Nicki Aycox and Brooke Nevin seemed bemused, but relatively positive about support and imagination. Nicki had received fanfic about Meg in the mail from a fan, and had been blown away and utterly impressed by how awesome it was; Brooke suggested fans write episodes of the show themselves. Someone asked Alison Mack a question about the Clark/Lex and she very frankly said that the rescusitation scene in the pilot drew in a huge fanbase because of its homoeroticism - and she didn't seem to think anything was wrong with that. or with saying that.
I don't know. I think it's just as easy to find fanfiction as any fan website these days, and with TV producers becoming more connected with audiences and fans (and definitely seeing the benefit of that!), they're definitely less likely to just turn a blind eye to what the fans are doing and saying. And by 'they' I mean not only the actors (like Alona, who reads all the forums etc), but the producers and creators.
I think for me, my opinion on all of this is formed by my firm belief that fanfiction - including slash - isn't something that should be considered shameful.
I don't think that guests at conventions should be made uncomfortable by inappropriate questions. I think that if they are clearly uncomfortable, then questioners/audience/fans should back off.
But ideally, i'd like a world where asking about fanfiction doesn't make the guest - or the rest of the audience - uncomfortable. I really liked the way Nicki and Brooke dealt with the question; I didn't like the way I'm sure a lot of the audience held their breath and/or muttered to the person sitting next to them and/or shook their heads in disapproval.
I think the fact that the audience let out a big lascivious moan en masse when the girl at Jensen's panel asked about fanfiction only served to support his discomfort.
Basically, I think I want everyone to stop thinking that fanfiction, slash or no, is something to be ashamed of.
Especially with television texts, the boundaries of the characters are so open anyway, I don't think it is something that should invoke a concept of violation of those characters and who portrays them ('Dean' is written by a range of script writers, directed by a number of directors, has input from Jensen, is re-written by comics authors and novelists and whoever wrote the material on the official website...).
Anyway, it's late, and my brain surge upon walking home in the rain has subsided again.
All in all, a good weekend :)
* Answer to best & worse physical features question: Jensen facepalming, looking uncomfortable, then surreptitiously glancing down at his crotch. Then, when the crowd cheered, saying "well, yaknow, and worse would be... bow legs. An awful set of Texas bow legs."
Anyhoo, have had a quick skim of the flist and seen very little about Jensen's rather interesting panel session this afternoon.
Indeed, there were interesting questions.
It was very easy to tell when a question made him uncomfortable, because there was facepalming. The more uncomfortable, the more facepalming. All the questions about Dean & the show made him very enthusiastic and excited. Questions like, "what do you think are your best and worst physical features?"* and "if you had to write a personals ad for yourself, what would it say?" resulted in moderate facepalming.
The question, "You said in the panel yesterday that you were very protective of Dean. What do you think of fanfiction?" made him practically crawl behind the chair he was facepalming so much.
I don't even remember his very brief answer about 'fanfiction' because he launched right into "some really imaginative/crazy [can't remember exact wording, but def wasn't positive] fans write something called Wincest..." (cue more facepalming). He did handle it quite well, though he was clearly very uncomfortable.
Of course, about fifteen minutes later, someone else asked a question that was something like: "is there gay subtext between Sam and Dean?" (I didn't quite hear it, just got the gist), which, personally, I think is quite a valid question!! But it was met with another anxious moan from the audience, and Jensen adamantly declaring (and facepalming) that a) THEY'RE BROTHERS! and b) Kripke knows about all the Wincest/gay stuff, and puts in these little 'jokes' to poke fun and show how ridiculous and outrageous that idea is.
(...clearly, that's working out for them.)
Anyway, Jensen said that he and Jared only found out about Wincest BECAUSE KIM MANNERS GAVE SOME TO THEM. I could not love Kim Manners any more, at this point. (I would kill to know what/who's story he gave them!)
I'm not sure how I feel about those questions. Well, I feel fine about the gay subtext question - I think it would be more of a problem if people thought that it was a problem to ask about gay subtext at a convention - given that it's common practice that people were asking about het love interests and dynamics on the show. But it did come at a time in that panel where Wincest was already at the front of everyone's minds.
The fanfiction question is a sticky one. Some fans are adamant that it was incredibly inappropriate, that it's something that's seen but not heard/admitted to (on either side). But the old practices are changing anyway, I think, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Yes, a lot of the practices of passing on etiquette is no longer present, but I think some of the 'rules' have - or should - become obsolete anyway.
The person that asked that question asked it of pretty much every guest at every panel; Alona Tal, upon being asked if she looked at websites/forums/etc, said she reads "everything. EVERYTHING." Nicki Aycox and Brooke Nevin seemed bemused, but relatively positive about support and imagination. Nicki had received fanfic about Meg in the mail from a fan, and had been blown away and utterly impressed by how awesome it was; Brooke suggested fans write episodes of the show themselves. Someone asked Alison Mack a question about the Clark/Lex and she very frankly said that the rescusitation scene in the pilot drew in a huge fanbase because of its homoeroticism - and she didn't seem to think anything was wrong with that. or with saying that.
I don't know. I think it's just as easy to find fanfiction as any fan website these days, and with TV producers becoming more connected with audiences and fans (and definitely seeing the benefit of that!), they're definitely less likely to just turn a blind eye to what the fans are doing and saying. And by 'they' I mean not only the actors (like Alona, who reads all the forums etc), but the producers and creators.
I think for me, my opinion on all of this is formed by my firm belief that fanfiction - including slash - isn't something that should be considered shameful.
I don't think that guests at conventions should be made uncomfortable by inappropriate questions. I think that if they are clearly uncomfortable, then questioners/audience/fans should back off.
But ideally, i'd like a world where asking about fanfiction doesn't make the guest - or the rest of the audience - uncomfortable. I really liked the way Nicki and Brooke dealt with the question; I didn't like the way I'm sure a lot of the audience held their breath and/or muttered to the person sitting next to them and/or shook their heads in disapproval.
I think the fact that the audience let out a big lascivious moan en masse when the girl at Jensen's panel asked about fanfiction only served to support his discomfort.
Basically, I think I want everyone to stop thinking that fanfiction, slash or no, is something to be ashamed of.
Especially with television texts, the boundaries of the characters are so open anyway, I don't think it is something that should invoke a concept of violation of those characters and who portrays them ('Dean' is written by a range of script writers, directed by a number of directors, has input from Jensen, is re-written by comics authors and novelists and whoever wrote the material on the official website...).
Anyway, it's late, and my brain surge upon walking home in the rain has subsided again.
All in all, a good weekend :)
* Answer to best & worse physical features question: Jensen facepalming, looking uncomfortable, then surreptitiously glancing down at his crotch. Then, when the crowd cheered, saying "well, yaknow, and worse would be... bow legs. An awful set of Texas bow legs."
no subject
My thing with the fanfic questions is that I just think there should be some things are JUST within fandom. It's got nothing to do with slash or wincest or whatever, but really the show is their's and fanfic is the fans' and I think it's good to have that seperation because I think it allows for more imagination and freedom, not less.
no subject
No shame or anything; just that it really has nothing to do with them as far as I'm concerned. My fantasies are about the characters, not the actors, and frankly I really don't care what they think about it. It's not written for them... [Now, RPS is an entirely different issue...wait, no, it actually isn't. The RPS I read is not about the *people* either but about characters drawn from their lives, so to speak...again, not for them but us.]
But thank you for a great report!!!! Sounds like you're having a marvelous time.
no subject
no subject
sure, they have their things and we have our things - i'm not saying that fandom should become mainstream, but that it shouldn't have to be hidden or hushed or felt guilty/ashamed about.
And I think the convention setting is where the 'their stuff' and 'our stuff' collide, anyway - people were asking questions about 'their stuff' at the panel - like continuity, technical aspects of shooting, etc etc etc... things that don't necessarily concern us unless we want to dig around for them. I think it works the same the other way.
no subject
Am I making any sense? The entire con thing is incredibly imbalanced (one of the reasons why convergence isn't a good model for me). If actor X and fan Y were to meet up and they chat and are curious about one another's sandboxes it'd be one thing (and that has happened, after all). But asking actors what they think about US...not the same thing afai'm concerned.
no subject
I have been to conventions where guests *have* mingled and actually asked the fans about fanfiction and slash. Even at this convention, when someone asked Alison Mack about Clark/Lex, she turned the question on the fan and asked them what they thought about it.
I guess I also feel, to a degree (and I know we differ, here) that these forums and spaces on the internet are actually open and public - even if they're not publicised. Whereas the film industry/spaces of production, largely are not. Conventions give fans the opportunity to try and find out what they want to know about what goes on inside the production sandbox.
It's pretty obvious that people from the production sandbox have come over into this sandbox, dug around in it, formed opinions on it. And it is as open to them as anyone else - I mean, I certainly didn't get an invitation, interview and introduction to fandom; I just had to look around myself and figure out what's what. Certainly especially with anonymity, that would be just as easy from someone in the production sandbox. In fact, I know of several cases where that is what is going on (especially in bandslash RPS!!).
It is an interesting point/question though, that one about asking the production people as to what they think about our sandbox. Still, if the question was what they thought about the SPN official vidding competition, or the comics, or fan websites or cosplay or something - I'm sure there wouldn't have been the same anxiety/discomfort response. Why is there THAT imbalance?
no subject
Also, I'd argue that the official vidding competition or the comics would clearly *not* be our sandbox now would it?
I have no problem with people doing their research and coming into our sandbox; as you point out, it is open and public (except when it isn't, and I'm a big supporter of that as well, i.e., flocked RPS communities, vidding sites with password protection, etc). But again, they go and look, they're responsible what they find. That's a quite different scenario than asking them about us...b/c I can't see any *reason* to do so other than to get somehow valorized by the actor...and why would we need that???
no subject
When it comes to the reason for wanting to know what production thinks of our sandbox... well, I know *I'm* fascinated and would love to know their opinions of it! if they have opinions already, that is. I'm not keen to bring it to their doorstep if they're not interested. But being non-confrontational with it does not equal hiding it or pretending it doesn't exist, in my opinion.
Also, I'd argue that the official vidding competition or the comics would clearly *not* be our sandbox now would it?
With that comment about the 'official' text expansion, I was trying to get more at what I perceive to be an imbalance of how this material created outside of the original boundaries of the text are perceived.
As in - *why* is the attitude around fanfiction, slash or no, one of shamefulness or worthlessness? is it because it doesn't make money? What are the moral/ethical reasons that make it okay to be embarassed about, or to scoff? Is it because other artists/authors are 'violating' the original text by borrowing parts and transforming or expanding on them? Because for me, that's exactly what the comics, the novel spin-offs and the vidding comp are doing. So those reasons don't fly with me.
I guess I feel like (after writing the above para) that there is, to a degree, a discrimination against fans where what they produce is considered worthless or shameful, when there's no real reason for that. I would like that to change, so that even the idea of bringing discussion of fan-produced material 'to the doorstep' of production folk is as acceptable as, say, dressing in costume at a convention or wearing a home-made fan teeshirt.
no subject
But to me this is not about being public about fanfic. It's about a socially prescribed interaction where someone is kinda forced to answer questions and the socially polite thing for me would be to not bring our fantasies to his front door.
If he brings it up? Different issue.
But then I think I just don't get the celebrity thing in general. I could care less what they think about pretty much anything except maybe acting choices. I care much more qabout *your* interpretation of an episode than about theirs. I love the show, but y'all are my fandom y'know :)