hope | SPN 3.01

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SPN 3.01

Firstly: MY SHOW IS BACK! <3 <3 <3

As someone else said, 3.01 was definitely no 2.01, but I guess that's what you get by not ending the last season on a cliffhanger. Or anything really that open that can be tied over into the first ep of the new season. I think I definitely need to re-watch it once I've got the high-res avi version, the wmv quality was a little distracting.

Um, is this an unpopular opinion? I don't particularly enjoy the episodes Kripke writes. Kim Manners is, of course, awesome, but yeah. not a huge fan of Kripke's scripts. The early scenes with Dean being a complete hedonist were hilarious, and also pure Kripke (Dean is always sexed-up when Kripke's writing him). Not that I have a problem with Dean being sexed-up... but it's just such a noticeable difference in characterisation when Kripke writes vs. when Kripke doesn't write. I would like it if it were a bit more consistent across the board.

I think I have been reading waaay to much post-2.22 in the hiatus, because I need to get back into the headspace of oh-right,-SPN-is-actually-quite-heavy-handed-and-clunky. Tamara was cool, but the introduction of her & Isaac & their TWOO WUB could have been handled a bit better (um, actually, all that stuff reminded me very much of the clunky style of the Pilot... Kripke!!! >.<)

Buffy-girl? sigh. Admittedly, it's way to early to tell where her character is going, but... Why did they think that getting rid of Jo and bringing in a character like this was a GOOD idea?

I'm not against having women in the show, but my heart does lurch in distress at the thought of it being anything but the sam-and-dean show. I'm all for supporting cast (of any gender) as long as they don't infringe on the team of sam-and-dean (but anyway, this is an old argument, so moving on...)

I really liked Jo because she was totally real for me - just a "kid" with way too much bragadaccio, a healthy serve of brattiness, and bravery tempered with the insecurity of youth. The point at which I really loved Jo was in No Exit, after she'd been dragged through an abandoned sewer - and she looked like it. My frustration with female action heroes are pretty much embodied by the hero~~ine~~'s hair. It's needs to bloody well reflect the filthy sweatiness of what they're actually doing. So this new girl? not so much.

What I would really love to see (though I doubt this will be the case, sigh) is a play out of this girl's character arc as being related to the whole "Sam came back changed" thing. Like, Sam is the only one who has seen her, and she's only followed Sam. She seems to be able to disappear (at this point. Who knows? maybe she's just really limber). I think it would be awesome if this is because she's something that's come back from wherever and attached itself to Sam - or even if she's like, Sam's alter-ego or something. Like, Sam did come back changed - weird, ruthless, destructive, super demon-related powers and without conscience - but has disassociated that part of himself. And it's a girl!

*sigh* like that's going to happen! Still, a girl can dream.

The portrayal of female sexuality in this episode made me seriously uncomfortable, though. Lust, in particular.

I mean, Dean's conquests are rarely characterised at all in the show as a whole, and in the context of this episode, his partner at the start of the episode was subsequently given a character as much as his egg & bacon mcmuffin was. Same old, same old.

Lust, though. It bothered me, when Isaac and Tamara were in the bar, that the most horrific threat to make was Lust going after Tamara. Both for the fact that Tamara was by default the recipient of sexual violence (wouldn't it be *more* disturbing and upsetting of normal order - i.e. what demons do - to have the man be the victim?), and that the female/female nature of it was held up as horrific.

I was really bugged by the bathtub-of-holy water scene as well. Let's face it: Lust was representing a female sexuality (hell, the fact of the matter is that they were equating female sexuality with demonic sinfulness, just as they were equating demonic-scale pride with a businessman, and demonic-scale sloth with a fat guy). Demon or not, just semiotically her sexuality - which was shown as being as energetic/aggressive and indiscriminate as Dean's - was portrayed as horrific, and her punishment at Dean's hands was extremely gratuitous in the way it was shot, and all the inferences of the place of domesticity, and the prominence of the oh-so-moral rosary. Maybe that wouldn't have disturbed me so much had the kissing between her and Dean immediately beforehand seemed less consensual/equal. Semiotically/symbolically: She was no more immoral than Dean in this situation. Why was she punished?

The other demons weren't dealt with in such a gratuitous way - the three Sam were with were dispatched quickly, with the focus on the weapon rather than their suffering. Lust was tortured - the holy water isn't able to exorcise her, then we can assume it's meant to subdue her enough to exorcise. Why then pull her out and shover her back in again? We didn't even witness the actual 'deaths' of envy, wrath, sloth...

Anyway. In other news, Sam got choked! heh.

Bobby's character in relation to the Winchesters amuses me. As I was saying to V last night, he's taken on a pseudo-father-figure role, only he's really nice & caring to them, so they don't respect him like they did John *g*

Most importantly of all: What the hell was that weird doll thing hanging behind Sam at Tamara & Isaac's place!?

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Mmm. You have a good point wrt the issues with Lust. Oh, show. You do have skanky gender issues.

I don't see why we couldn't have just had Jo as an independent new hunter. (was there some reason why Alona Tal had to be gone?) Cassidy-girl's hair is even more over the top than Jo's maybe even worse than Buffy's. And the weird slo-mo shots didn't make it look any less impractical and ridiculous.

But I love this show because of its dorktastic issues-having heavy-handed self, not in spite of it. I'm glad it's back.

Yeah, even though I know they're not getting Alona back (they decided to can the character entirely after the fan reaction), I do like the way they left her plot - having her run away, go off and be an independent hunter on her own. I would love it if she turned up every so often as just another part of that world.

I love the dorktasticness of the show as well :) It's taking me a while to get used to it again, though!

These were pretty much my thoughts, as well. I agree, I agree, one hundred percent. Especially about the punishment of female desire / gratuitous bathtub scene. God. I begin to suspect Kripke really does have a problem with women. He's probably all pissy at us for turning his macho boys into FAGS, and for 'taking over' his macho boy story and liking it more than his intended all-male audience. I love how this episode was all... DEAN IS STRAIGHT! STRAIGHT MAN IN THE ROOM! LOOK OUT, STRAIGHT MAN COMIN THROUGH! DID YOU CATCH THAT DEAN IS COMPLETELY HETEROSEXUAL! ZOMG!11

Ugh. And you're right, I love that it's the Sam and Dean show, and I love that it's a story about men, but... tonight I felt like I just got bitchslapped for even daring to have an interest in the show.

Like. WTF?

Is this the tone I can expect for the whole season? I felt like BEGGING for a Gamble-written episode, this is how much I disliked the season opener. :(

I like your idea about Buffy being Sam's disembodied anima, though. That would be pretty awesome. :)

It would be pretty damn awesome, though it does carry the problems of Sam's evil side = female (the same way we had the anvilicious black vs. white in Bloodlust with - gasp! a *black* man).

Ah, but she didn't seem evil so much as owning some kind of power that Sam seems hesitant to express or recognize?

From what JA said at Asylum, I'm pretty sure that yeah, Kripke is keen on going "they aiten't fags!" at every opportunity. Which yeah, is frustrating. Because duh, we know that'll never happen, but having the creators so actively deny it is in essence just denying the fact that texts generate a multiplicity of interpretations. Feh.

Still, slash has always been based on deep devotion and friendship, which I don't think the show is ever going to do away with, even if they want to put in extra stuff to try and counteract it. I can always ignore that other stuff and titter in delight at lines like "we're going down together!"

I don't want to have not-enjoyed the episode as much as I did. I think the quality of my file contributed. My fingers are crossed for some more depth in future episodes... which I think we'll be guaranteed as long as Kripke doesn't write them all.

Now that Gamble is the chief story editor, you might get your wish *g*

But I hate Gamble. This is the tragedy.

and titter in delight at lines like "we're going down together!"

heh. i admit. a part of me did smirk, on the inside. mostly, i was just groaning. Kripke could seriously use a beta.

I didn't want to have notenjoyed it, either. Ah. Well. It's still my show. I was just all excited about it being back on, and this one left me feeling deeply unsatisfied.

I'm just a dirty no-good complainer!

DEAN IS STRAIGHT! STRAIGHT MAN IN THE ROOM! LOOK OUT, STRAIGHT MAN COMIN THROUGH! DID YOU CATCH THAT DEAN IS COMPLETELY HETEROSEXUAL! ZOMG!11

sorry, what? do you think they were trying to say something there?

;)

it was kinda boring, huh? i mean there were bits of good fun, but generally ...

oh well, i think my investment in it died along with ash and andy. meh.

Awww. I feel like I need to write you a story where Ash and Andy hang out as ghosts to make you feel better!

I don't know, I feel weird. I'm still totally committed to & invested in the show, but probably I read too much fic in the hiatus because I'm watching the ACTUAL SHOW thinking "OOC, dudes!"

ooooooooooooo please?! :DDD

i am committed, but not so invested. and it's true what you say - it's not the best with the characterisation. um, i KNOW it's canon, but still! i think watching this episode made me remember that it has never actually been a COMPLETELY fantastic show script-wise, or cinematography-wise or whatever. sure, there are amazing single episodes, and there were runs of amazing eps in season 2 particularly, but generally it's not to the beautiful-looking standard of, say, carnivale (i'm just watching that for the first time!)

this doesn't make me any less fannish for it, though! i mean, i can still fan HP even though JKR is possibly one of the worst writers EVAH! it's just a reminder that, er, sometimes the fic is better. and hey, i got into SPN for the fandom anyway, not the show. canon-schmanon!

probably I read too much fic in the hiatus because I'm watching the ACTUAL SHOW thinking "OOC, dudes!"

*snortle* Totally my reaction, too.

Yeah, that thing with Lust was kind of...ugh. My tolerance for that kind of stuff is diminishing kind of rapidly. I MIGHT not have noticed it, if not for the previouslies and the stupid shoe thing and Tamara going all psycho (I love you Tamara!), but...yeah.

I MIGHT not have noticed it, if not for the previouslies and the stupid shoe thing and Tamara going all psycho

Yeah, I agree. With all the other gender issues in the episode it kind of got compounded.

The whole inference of Tamara being responsible for her daughter's death (as opposed to it just being a demon fucking with her head, and us knowing it isn't true!, like it is with the winchesters) riled me also.

the stupid shoe thing

God, what the shit, seriously. And all the other women were just standing around going EEEEEK! You know, instead of pulling a gun, or trying to tackle her and making a citizen's arrest, or DIALING MOTHERFUCKING 911. If I saw that going on, you can bet your boobies I'm not going to stand around shrieking.

SHOES. WHAT.

I don't have a problem with the shoes. Shoes has become code for the supposed "frivolity" of female desire, from both genders. Screw that -- if she wanted the shoes, then goddamn, let her want those shoes. If they'd been boots, I'd have been right with her. :) The object of one's desire is often not your o.o.d.... but that doesn't negate the importance of the desire, yes?

My problem is with the complete passivity (and passive/aggressiveness) of every. single. woman. in that scene. -- Except, of course, for the woman who goes crazy with avarice. And the message may seem to be that women are not supposed to want, that we should only be wanted.

But, I'd point out that Sam and Dean are consistently not allowed to want, either. Sam's relationships with women end in tragedy, his independence from his family didn't go so well, Dean's desire for a normal apple-pie life need to be sacrificed for the greater good, his drowning of desire, etc. The more I think about it, the more I'd have to say that the episode was more about the virtue of temperance, regardless of gender.

Doesn't mean there still wasn't some really troubling, dismissive and demeaning shit in there.

Although, I suppose another way of seeing it, is that each man was confronted with the thing about himself he most fears, so that our ambitious almost-maybe-lawyer Sammy is confronted by the suited Pride. Bobby, by sloth; making the "fat, drunk and stupid" line less flat-out mean, and more poignant, since we can assume this is how he sees himself. In this light, Dean's Lust being a woman becomes more subversive, or at least more interesting.

Yes, no, maybe?

To clarify some, I mean that it shifts the subtext from All Female Lust is Wrong, to Dean Sees His Sexuality As Dangerous and Inherently Feminine. But not necessarily dangerous because it's feminine.

(Sorry for the SOMANY comments.)

Apologies for breaking in, but I love your reading of this. We heard what Envy thought of Dean and Tamara, and I so wanted him to go on to dissect Bobby and Sam, and I suspect you've just done so for him. The point was too subtle for me to get at the time. ;)

Just gonna butt with:

Before trawling others' reactions, I just dashed-off my own small ep thing, and I had very similar thinkythots on the 'pairing off' of the Sins, per Boy.

*nods* Yeah. :]

Like, Sam did come back changed - weird, ruthless, destructive, super demon-related powers and without conscience - but has disassociated that part of himself. And it's a girl!

I'm sorry, I have just snorted coffee *everywhere* at that last part - can you *imagine* Dean's reaction??? :) But yes, I'm clinging to the hope that this figure is somehow supernatural, because the alternatives are too horrid to think about. And I also love your observation re Bobby and the boys!

Re the female sexuality: oh, yes. There are days when I wonder why I watch television.

oh-right,-SPN-is-actually-quite-heavy-handed-and-clunky

*g* You know, that's almost word-for-word what I've just brain-dumped onto the page in my reaction post. Hiatus was long enough to concentrate on good fiction, and meta, and forget the other stuff. I do still love my show, very much, but I have also remembered why I don't necessarily confess to the world at large that I do so.

Agreed re: gender issues. Sometimes the show just makes me Frowny, here. The women we aren't supposed to "notice!" are the best: Ellen, Tamara. Maybe it's the actors inhabiting the characters' skins, maybe it's the writers are simply dealing with them as people and not bringing-the-hawt. Maybe a combo, with fries. Regardless, 'real' is hotter- just ask Ellen.

*sets self in wait and see mode*

Most importantly of all: What the hell was that weird doll thing hanging behind Sam at Tamara & Isaac's place!?
HA! I asked exactly the same! I've no idea. I'm not sure I want to.

In conclusion: Bobby.

The gender issues in this show are many. I keep trying to put a spin on the fact that the girl Lust inhabits survives while most of the other sin's (minus gluttony guy) get their throats slit. However, my brain goes "So the girl can only survive once lust has been cast out of her?"

And did anyone else wonder where on God's green Earth Tamara's gun was? For someone who's been hunting for eight years she seemed suspiciously weaponless most of the time.

My big issues with SPN is that they don't do a great job at counter balancing the things that bug me. Ex. Every instance of homosexuality on this show is drawn in a negative or humorus light, our one minor lesbian character gets killed off, and there's nothing to balance that. There's not a character or situation I can point to that says, well yeah ok they did this, but they also did that.(But that's a different soap box for a different time)

Back to gender though, what's sad is that I do think they've been trying to counter balance some of the gender issues (they do have a nice balance of handle myself in a situation one shot ep females to go with they're damsels IMOP,) but their starts seem to get cut off at the knees. Jo, and Ellen were nice, but a huge fan freak out caused them to be ditched. So I'm not sure who to blame here.

I love the show a lot, but there are moments when I want to bang my head against a wall.

For someone who's been hunting for eight years she seemed suspiciously weaponless most of the time.

Well, married for eight years, but I'm not sure they mentioned how long they'd been hunting?

But you're absolutely right. I really wanted to like her, but I kept getting so frustrated, for exactly this reason. Her reaction to every situation was Instant Freakout. I accept that they weren't very good at what they do -- not every hunter out there is going to be a pro, and most are probably not as good as they think they are. But seriously. EEEEEEE EEEEEEE EEEEEEE was her reaction, every freaking time.

Ha. I thought the new blonde girl *was* Jo at first!

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SPN 3.01

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