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So, people like my story! Yay!

Though, my half-baked theory that the more plot = the less comments seems... pretty correct, actually. Hahaha...haaah... <-- somewhat exhausted laughter because I heart feedback but omg writing porn is GRUELLING.

ETA: okay, writing the above makes me SO PARANOID because it's this THING again where if you talk about what it's like to receive feedback then you are being precious. And yet that site of engagement is such a complex one that I wish wish WISH fandom as a whole was more open to meta'ing and being frank about it (I know, I have said this before, but then I get - hah - paranoid, and lose my nerve and delete after all). But I am trying to be brave, and not think about being silently judged. CAN WE PLEASE, AS A COMMUNITY, JUST TALK ABOUT IT?

Ahem.

Anyway. Speaking of writing stuff, I am going to re-do the Nerdy PSA into a v.2, seeing as lots of people are still using it and I think I could tidy it up a bit and integrate a bunch of stuff left in the comments. If you have anything to add/weigh in on wrt accessibility and casual coding that isn't covered there, drop me a comment/PM/pigeon?

omg productivity!

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LOL! Just composed and then deleted, in case you were actually feeling very sad and sensitive, a tweet along the lines of bitch bitch bitch writing teh porns is hard bitch bitch bitch plotses gets no commentses

je t'adore, m'dear.

Pr0n is DIFFICULT AND SQUIRMY-MAKING TO WRITE. And also the only way to get wodges of comments. That said, the comments one gets on plotty stuff and gen stuff do tend to be a little more concritty, given NC17 tends to attract a slew of omg hawt and a plethora of tmi. Not that any feedback is bad. It's ALL LOVELY AND I NOM IT LIKE CAKE.

It would be really interesting to discuss the whole getting comments thing in a non-judgemental arena, because it often sounds like whining or bitching or precious, precious, princessing and it's not, or at least, not the stuff I'd be interested in discussing.

heh, well, I like getting comments and I grumble to myself if I don't - I agree, I would like to discuss this more, but as I suspect all I'd manage to say is 'people should comment on MY things!' I'd not be much support to you! I do try to comment on everything I read (I'm hugely fannishly monogamous, which is why I haven't commented on your new story) but sometimes I just think 'yes, fine' and move on. And there we go, the discussion has already moved on to the giving of feedback!

"Though, my half-baked theory that the more plot = the less comments seems... pretty correct, actually. Hahaha...haaah... <-- somewhat exhausted laughter because I heart feedback but omg writing porn is GRUELLING."

gah, I hadn't even thought about this, but I think you are absolutely right. I'm still new enough to both the writing of the stuff and the community that I just go squee for any and all comments so hadn't even thought about beyond "comments! Shiny!" or you know... "no comments, :(" lol

and oh my gods thank you for saying writing porn is hard because it makes my head explode to do it, but I read your stuff and it comes across as effortless. And I knew already that it wasn't but it soothes something in my soul to know that I'm not crazy when I want to smash my head against the wall working on this stuff. - so... er.. thanks.

I hear you.

I think the amount of commenting depends on the kind of writing and sometimes the length. For example, after a really smutastic piece, the best I might be able to manage is "Wow," or "Yeah.". In those cases, my heart is in the right place but it's usually redirected bloodflow away from brains and motor function so it's a bit of a challenge. Sometimes I think I should just wait and come back to it with the brain working.

In general, after a longer piece, even if I'm really enthusiastic about it, the task of going through and pointing out what I like seems daunting, and I'm lazy, and....

In the case of Underwood specifically, your summary said something like "desktop porn" which I mistakenly interpreted to mean that it was something appropriate to read at my desk. It most certainly was not. But once I realized that I had devote considerable energy to looking busy and getting that crazy grin off my face, and I may have neglected my readerly duty to comment. I loved it!

But I hear what you're saying about talking about feedback and talking about this thing we do. I'm relatively new to this, and I can only infer the meaning of "meta" from the few I've read, but I absolutely DO want to talk about it.

Um. You start.

*grins*

Thanks for this. I just peeked at the Nerdy PSA and it's great. I'm inexperienced enough that anything you do to update will be welcome news to me and will save lots of time and hair-pulling next time I decide to post.

I don't understand fandom in this. In any other area of your life a product of so much of you time and talent and energy would be expected to garner feedback and comments or at least acknowledgement. And you would not be vilified for wanting some recognition of your work.

OTOH I am often guilty of not commenting when I should. I rarely comment until I've reread a work; sometimes there is so much I want to say that it becomes overwhelming and I just offer a sliver of what I feel. Also, I'm at a point in my life when I am spending a lot of time driving carpools or waiting on carpool kids or waiting around during my son's Saxophone lessons (and Hebrew lessons and tennis games and...) much of my LJ reading is via my iPhone and commenting through a touchpad keyboard is a pain. Or, as is the case with Torchwood, I come to a fandom a little late and root around until I find the good fic and then gorge myself on your older works. I could comment on everything but then I feel like a stalker. Sigh.

I think you are an amazing writer and I get really excited when you post new fic and I will be better about telling you, and all the writers I enjoy, how much I appreciate your gifts, because that's what they are.

And I love Meta like whoa and think anyone who feels that you can't talk about issues surrounding creating and concrit and the like should go sit in a corner.

I'll be honest. I don't think there's a whole hell of a lot to talk about. In fact, by thinking that there's something to talk about make it seem like there's more to it, but there isn't. People like porn.

Okay, teal deer warning.

And yet that site of engagement is such a complex one that I wish wish WISH fandom as a whole was more open to meta'ing and being frank about it

Amen to this. ALL of us want readers, and we want to hear their responses. But our reasons for reading and writing are so, so varied, and fandom is a social as well as a writerly space. I think we all make choices about how we present ourselves over and beyond the fic itself, and those can have as much of an effect on the response as the content of the fic. For some of us, this is pure playtime and entertainment, especially from the reading end -- the equivalent of fast food or a box of chocolates, and lord knows there is NOTHING wrong with that. I like my comfort porn as well as the next fangirl. But if that were all it were, I doubt that any of us would make the kind of investment in time and energy that we do.

Speaking for myself, I'm not a good test case as either reader or writer, but I take some lessons from the kind of feedback I get and give (and how I, and others, receive it). I started writing fanfic because I want to be a better writer, and because I'd written myself into a corner where I was scared to death to show my work to anyone except my late mentor. I started writing for Torchwood because I thought there were fantastic writers in this fandom, talking about things that interested me, who wrote stuff that broke my heart and made me laugh -- and because occasionally, the discussion about these things really, really spoke to me. I saw a way to talk to readers and writers, something I'd been lacking for five years, and I loved the peer aspect of it, too. I don't think what I write will ever be "popular," but getting any response is already over and beyond what I had, let alone the occasional person who's really interested in the how as well as the what.

That said, I'm not immune to the "quantity" syndrome, where we measure the value of response by number of comments -- which is based on the naive assumption that only the people who comment give a shit, and the equally naive idea that the better the story, the more comments it will garner. After a lot of internal struggle, I finally started putting LJtoys code on my posts, because I needed to have SOME idea if people were actually reading. And depending on length, rating, genre, etc., I've had cases where literally only one in a hundred readers commented. (Incidentally, I'd agree that the more plotty and long, the fewer the comments. Also, YANA in taking five months or more to write one story, and word word word that GOOD porn is gruelling.)

And you know something? I'm bad about commenting myself. I was really shy about this when I started a year ago, and I continue to struggle with it. I want my feedback to be something that's useful, something that shows the writer that I'm not only moved by what they've written but that I appreciate what it took to write it. I want to give as many openings for discussion as I can. And that's selfish, I think, because sometimes ANY comment is enough to encourage the writer. It's also very likely projection on my part. But the end result is that I often comment late (not that I think writers mind that) because I go away and think about it, and sometimes I don't get back to it. And it seldom occurs to me that that might hurt someone's feelings if they expect me to be among the regular commenters. (That's a whole 'nother can of worms: the unspoken contract with one's flisties around commenting.)

Then there's the whole issue of the short shelf life of fic and how rarely people comment on back catalogues. But I think I've stood on the soapbox for long enough here.

Edited 2010-01-28 14:47 (UTC)

I just read your story and damn, it's hot and good and tasteh.

Have you posted it on jackxianto? Lots of readers there.

Comment numbers are weird. Sometimes I'm fairly surprised if anyone likes something and sometimes I'm surprised few people like a story. There are just so many factors - the summary, porn content, time of day, what people are in the mood for reading that week, etc., but many many people read stories (and blogs and other content) and never comment at all.

One of my stories came up on twgenrefinders or twstoryfinder - one of those - and several people mentioned it or said they liked it, and they've never commented. :D So, you know, people do mem or like things and forget to tell you.

I specifically post at Wonderful World of MakeBelieve (WWOMB), an all-inclusive Fandom Archive for one reason. It lets me view the statistics on each posted story.

For example, at the present, the most read is the longest posted there, a multi-part Highlander story. With multiple crossovers, sex, and a cat as a major OFC. Seriously.

The second, another Highlander story, is fairly long, all about D/s play, sexy and plotty.

I have a virtual tie for third most read. Two are long Highlander movie AUs (one has absolutely NO sex in it). While the third is STIX, medium length, plotty and almost sexless. Of course, what's there is prime. Lalala

What I'm saying, is that in my experience there's no accounting for taste.

Oh, yes, most importantly, in over 2000 hits in 6 months, I've had FOUR people comment.

I no longer think about getting feedback. I write the story I want to read, and would like to share. I set it free, and watch my statistics. Of course, the more often you post at WWOMB, the more readers you attract to older stories. Readership goes up.

Feeback is wonderful, and I do love when it happens. But that was never why I wrote to begin with.

Um, sorry to have rambled all over your lj.

Yeah.

Renee

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